Option Traders от Варна

[Penko]

Какво използвате за търгуване - IB, optionsxpress или друго?

[kritelin]

все пак си оставям правото да си променя мнението във всеки един момент

И аз съм настроен за фейд на едно евентуално рали след изборите. Мисля над 1430 ако видим ESDec12 да търся шортове за ново дъно под 1400. Там ще накупя и още путове

[Style]

The biggest trade that we saw today from the CBOE's VIX pit was a
broker buying for a customer 35,000 Nov 20-30 Call Spreads for $0.78.
November VIX Expiration is Wednesday, November 21st.
VIX closed today at 18.42, November VIX futures closed 18.10.

Breakdown of the Trade:
Buy VIX November 20 strike call 35,000 times
Sell VIX November 30 strike call 35,000 times
Risk: $78 per 1 lot
Reward: $922 per 1 lot
Breakeven: $20.78
Delta: Positive
Gamma: Positive
Theta: Negative
Vega: Positive
Total Amount of Cash Outlayed for the Trade: $2.73 million
демек след изборите, два три дена колебания и в петък ще се позиционирам за надолу в SPY options, още не съм избрал стратегията.

VXN futures кривата също е изкривена в ноемврииския контракт, смятам че ще стане обаче точно обратното, вместо ъп ноемврии, ще продължим надолу.VXN е еквивалент на Викса за Nasdaq100 index
VXN 10/26/12 11/02/12
19.58 19.95
Nov12 19.95 19.35
следващите фючъри са в контанго

все пак си оставям правото да си променя мнението във всеки един момент
поправка :
това че ноемврииския VXN фючър е излязъл от рамката на контангото, означава и разчупване на корелацията между двата индекса, тоест след изборите маркета като цяло ще пада, а за технологичния сектор се очаква повече ъп отколкото надолу

[Style]

The biggest trade that we saw today from the CBOE's VIX pit was a
broker buying for a customer 35,000 Nov 20-30 Call Spreads for $0.78.
November VIX Expiration is Wednesday, November 21st.
VIX closed today at 18.42, November VIX futures closed 18.10.

Breakdown of the Trade:
Buy VIX November 20 strike call 35,000 times
Sell VIX November 30 strike call 35,000 times
Risk: $78 per 1 lot
Reward: $922 per 1 lot
Breakeven: $20.78
Delta: Positive
Gamma: Positive
Theta: Negative
Vega: Positive
Total Amount of Cash Outlayed for the Trade: $2.73 million
демек след изборите, два три дена колебания и в петък ще се позиционирам за надолу в SPY options, още не съм избрал стратегията.

VXN futures кривата също е изкривена в ноемврииския контракт, смятам че ще стане обаче точно обратното, вместо ъп ноемврии, ще продължим надолу.
VXN 10/26/12 11/02/12
19.58 19.95
Nov12 19.95 19.35
следващите фючъри са в контанго

[Style]

Ба, не може Със 6+ цифрен акаунт всичко мое

така може ... бързо да стане 4 цифрен.... но пък знаиш ли му акаунта

[НАИВHИК]

ами само колове не можеш да шортиш,

Ба, не може Със 6+ цифрен акаунт всичко мое

[Style]

Грешка на езика ..да шортя колове исках да кажа.

ами само колове не можеш да шортиш, шортиш кол спред, пак изисква марджин но не така както гол шорт.
Играи го така като мислиш че сме за надолу : ако смяташ че ''overall'' волата е относително висока, шорт лег-а ти е АТМ, а лонг-а ОТМ. И обратното ако смяташ че волата е относително ниска купуваш АТМ и продаваш ИТМ.

[Vatman]

Даже е спорно дали трябва да се наричат опции, защото единствено гарантират печалбата/загубата на определена сума (също като при хазарта), а не правото на покупка/продажба на ъндърлайинга...

[niki5]

Ники5 не съм прочел статията ти ред за ред а и не смятам да се задълбочавам.Не става ясно как се изчислява цената им, имат ''делта'' ''вега'' и ''тета'' но ти не можеш да ги видиш. Според мене така си изкарват парите големите банки в Сащ. Асен го беше обяснил веднъж... това са ванила опции - вертикални спредове на CBOE, препродавани в Европа като един продукт, ''екзотични'' опции и така нататък.Мнението ми е че наистина доближават треидинга до хазарта и е за наивните... ето го и потвърждението - ''The pricing is therefore easier for the investor to understand''. За по ''лесното'' винаги се плаща допълнително.

Delta=1, Vega= nemam, Theta=not care. Bankata pravi pari ot spread-a, gap risk costs, +fin. component like + LIBOR

Very low cost for a retailer despite the hidden cost into it

[kritelin]

ако СП500 върне и до 1430 и смяташ че сме видяли върха за тази година, то тогава трябва да купуваш путове а не да продаваш.

Грешка на езика ..да шортя колове исках да кажа.

[Style]

шортваш ли да прибираш премия ? Мисля, че ако СП500 върне до 1430 е добро място да се шортят путове ако приемем идеята, че сме видяли върха за тази година

ако СП500 върне и до 1430 и смяташ че сме видяли върха за тази година, то тогава трябва да купуваш путове а не да продаваш.

[Style]

Ники5 не съм прочел статията ти ред за ред а и не смятам да се задълбочавам.Не става ясно как се изчислява цената им, имат ''делта'' ''вега'' и ''тета'' но ти не можеш да ги видиш. Според мене така си изкарват парите големите банки в Сащ. Асен го беше обяснил веднъж... това са ванила опции - вертикални спредове на CBOE, препродавани в Европа като един продукт, ''екзотични'' опции и така нататък.Мнението ми е че наистина доближават треидинга до хазарта и е за наивните... ето го и потвърждението - ''The pricing is therefore easier for the investor to understand''. За по ''лесното'' винаги се плаща допълнително.

[Vatman]

Тези нок-аут, бариер, тъч, ноу тъч измишльотини са единствено за това да доближат трейдинга до хазарта, претендирайки, че така така търговията с опции ставала по-лесна и разбираема... . Измислили са ги много кадърни психолози, които много добре знаят, че хазартния хъс особено при мъжете е много силен и на това залагат. Всъщност тези типове опции се контролират много трудно, тъй като експърейшъна е неизвестен...

[niki5]

See below:
Depending on the product type, leveraged products also benefit from rising or falling stock prices. Compared to warrants, knock-out products have several special characteristics:
Knock-out products can expire prematurely if the price of stock price of the underlying asset undershoots (for knock-out calls) or exceeds (for knock-out puts) a certain threshold. Depending on the form of the product, it then loses its value or a set recovery value is repaid. Knock-out products are affected by changes in implicit volatility only to a minor degree or not at all. The pricing is therefore easier for the investor to understand than that of warrants.Knock-out products have little to no time value and possess greater leverage than comparable warrants.Due to the possibility of “knock-out” and the greater leverage, knock-out products are riskier than comparable warrants. Knock-out products react disproportionately high to price movements of a specific underlying asset. Underlying assets are typically shares, indices, currencies, and commodities. The leverage allows high percentage profits to be won even with low initial investment. However, the leverage also works in the opposite direction. If your market expectations are incorrect, high losses up to a total loss of the invested capital may be incurred.
The use of knock-out products with high leverage as an instrument of speculation is only recommended for investors who are truly prepared to take risks. Due to their special product characteristics, however, knock-out products can also be used for other purposes and may therefore be of interest to investors who are less prepared to take risks and more interested in returns: products that gain value when prices fall may be used to hedge deposits of securities against stock market losses. The use of knock-out products may also free up invested capital which can then be employed elsewhere (cash extraction). You can read more in the section “Applications of Knock-out Products.”
Warrants or knock-out products?
Most investors only come into contact with two types of leveraged products: warrants and knock-out products.
Warrants have long had an established place in the German securities landscape. The price of a warrant is largely determined by the price movements of the underlying asset. However, other factors also influence the price of a warrant, especially the degree of fluctuation (volatility) of the underlying asset. Therefore, an investor can only comprehend the pricing of warrants if he understands the influence of volatility.
Knock-out products were only invented in the last few years, but have become very popular very quickly. In contrast to warrants, the influence of volatility plays no or only a minor role. It is easier for the investor to understand pricing.
The leverage of a knock-out product is usually even a bit higher than that of a comparable warrant. However, trading with knock-out products also carries an additional risk: if the underlying asset undershoots or exceeds a certain price level, the knock-out instrument immediately becomes due: when this “knock-out event” occurs, the product immediately loses its value or a recovery value is paid to the investor.The warrant and knock-out product categories both offer product types that benefit from rising or falling prices:
calls gain value when the price of the underlying asset rises. The corresponding product type for knock-out products is often called a “knock-out call,” “turbo call,” or “bull.”
Puts benefit when the price of the underlying asset falls. In the knock-out product category, this product type is accordingly called a “knock-out put,” “turbo put,” or “bear.”
Different types of knock-out products
In general, two types of knock-out products can be differentiated:
Knock-out products without stop-loss threshold: for these products - as in our example above - the strike and the knock-out threshold are identical.
Knock-out products with stop-loss threshold: for these products, the knock-out threshold falls above (calls) or below (puts) the strike. If this threshold is undershot or exceeded, the product also becomes due prematurely, but you generally receive a payment of a recovery value. Since the knock-out threshold for this product works like a stop order, the threshold is usually called a “stop-loss threshold.”
The amount of the recovery value depends on the price at which the issuer can liquidate the hedging position. Most issuers even up the hedge position over a period of ca. two to three hours. The recovery value to be paid to the investor is then determined.
Open-end knock-outs
Most knock-out products possess a maturity of a few weeks to several months at the time of issue. Some knock-out products, however, are provided with an indefinite maturity. These products do not possess a premium; their price therefore always corresponds to the intrinsic value.
As interest expenses for the issuer’s hedge and interest returns from a hedging position are naturally also incurred for indefinite ongoing maturities, the strike (financing level) and the stop-loss threshold are adjusted at regular intervals so that the intrinsic value of the product changes by degrees. The intrinsic value of the instrument can therefore decrease over long holding periods if the price of the underlying asset tends sideways.
Key figures
To make evaluating structured products easier, our website offers you a series of valuation figures for most product types. These are displayed as soon as you call up an individual product in the menu. The subsequent figures will help you evaluate a knock-out product. We would like to offer you a brief explanation of their meaning.
Premium Like for warrants, the issuer safeguards himself when selling knock-out products by buying or selling the underlying asset in order to avoid having to speculate against the investor. Due to the leverage, the issuer must clearly invest more capital than the investor in order to hedge against sold knock-out calls. The issuer charges the investor for the interest expenses for this capital in the premium.
The premium is stated by percentage. The figure “premium in % p.a.” also makes products with different maturities comparable.
When selling knock-out puts to the investor, the issuer must sell underlying assets in order to hedge. For this, he receives capital which he can invest and use to earn interest. As a result, knock-out puts are not infrequently quoted with a negative premium (disagio). In this case, the instrument costs less than the intrinsic value.
Leverage
The leverage indicates how accurately the knock-out product reflects the price movements of the underlying asset. The leverage of knock-out products can be calculated as follows:
(Share price * BV) / Price KO= (75.00 Euros * 0.1) / 0.57 Euros= 13.2
The knock-out call from our example would increase by about 13% if the price of the Siemens share increased by 1%. It should be noted that all key figures reflect snap-shots and that leverage works in both directions. If the share price declines, high losses can be incurred very quickly. If the share price touches or undershoots the mark of 70.00 Euros, the investor will suffer a total loss unless he has sold the instrument before the knock-out event.
The greater the leverage of a knock-out product, the riskier the instrument. When buying knock-outs, investors should make sure of a sufficient distance to the knock-out threshold at all costs.
Distance to knock-out
This figure indicates how strongly the share would have to fall (for calls) or rise (for puts) in order to violate the knock-out thresholds. The smaller the distance to the knock-out threshold, the riskier the product.
Cash extraction
Let’s assume you possess 100 shares of Siemens AG, current price 75.00 Euros. The total value of the position is therefore 7,500.00 Euros. You now wish to invest in another interesting share for the short term. Unfortunately, you don’t have any capital free at the moment. However, you don’t want to lose your Siemens shares because you consider the prospects to be promising.
With knock-outs, you can continue to participate in the price movements of an underlying asset and still free up capital for other purposes. For a multiplier of 0.1, ten knock-out calls refer to one share. In order to replace 100 shares, you therefore need 1,000 knock-outs. You sell the Siemens shares and purchase 1,000 knock-out calls instead with a strike and a knock-out threshold of 65.00 Euros at a price of 1.07 Euros. You need 1,070.00 Euros to do this. This leaves you 6,430.00 Euros to invest in the second share.
If the Siemens share now rises from 75.00 to 85.00 Euros, 100 Siemens shares would have earned you a profit of 100 x 10.00 Euros - that is, 1,000.00 Euros. The price of the knock-out call would rise to about 2.07 Euros in this scenario (depending on holding period possible a few cents less, as the premium slowly decreases). In this scenario, 1,000 instruments would also earn you a profit of 1,000.00 Euros, but the remaining 6,430.00 Euros would remain available to you for further investment.
When making use of cash extraction, however, you should be aware of the following things:The knock-out product can be knocked out prematurely. If this happens, the capital you invested in the knock-out is lost. You then no longer partake in the price movements of the share.
The maturity of most knock-out products is limited. If the date of maturity is reached, you no longer partake in the price movements of the share.The gradual decrease of the premium causes investment costs to accrue. These will be higher the longer you replace a share position with knock-outs. For knock-outs without limited maturity, the intrinsic value of the product may decrease due to the investment costs. Your general position is similar to that of a speculation financed by credit, which is not suitable for all types of investors.

[kritelin]

аз също си признавам че не съм навътре . Като цяло гледам да направя малко пари, а как няма значение. Ентусиазиран съм да уча играта с опции и от друга страна маркет динамикс които движат ъндърлаинг-а.

шортваш ли да прибираш премия ? Мисля, че ако СП500 върне до 1430 е добро място да се шортят путове ако приемем идеята, че сме видяли върха за тази година