40% от децата смятат, че четенето на книги е безсмислено!!!

[Кака Дечка]

Здравейте,

Това е много сериозна тема, така че очаквам вашите мнения

[Императорът]

Неслучайно съм обещал като ме изберете, да приравня Азис со Сократ - т.е. да го съдя по същото обвинение - развращаване на младежта и да му предложа същата алтернатива - смърт или изгнание завинаги. Мръсното животно би трябвало да се гордее... ако знаеше кой е Сократ.

[Joan]

Не разбирам защо трябва да се противопоставя четенето на книги на другите средства за информация или за забавление. Всяко нещо си има място и значение.

Ако нямам време, по-скоро бих ограничила телевизията, отколкото четенето на книги. Но и по телевизията има канали и предавания, които са интересни за мен - Дискавъри-тата, Анимал Планет... Интернетът си е удобен и лесен начин и за комуникация, и за събиране на информация, и за забавление.

Както пееше незабравимият Фреди "Искам всичко и сега "

Напълно споделям мнението на Nikodim - парите са само средство, не са цел.

По повод това проучване - преди да коментирам, ми се ще да разбера методологията му. Най-лесният начин за изкривяване на резултати (било нарочно, било неволно) се крие в методологията - как са подбрани единиците, как са зададени въпросите, какво и как се прави, ако не искат или не могат да отговорят. И доколко са спазени изискванията за представителност. Иначе моите лични наблюдения са други, но аз с движа в определен кръг и е напълно възможно те да са изкривени от това.

А за това, че знаят кой е Азис, не са виновни те. Просто Азис присъства непрекъсанто из медиите и рекламите. Голям плакат с Азис, при това с доста двусмислено съдържание, стоя дълго време на фасадата на кино Сердика. Като това ти показват непрекъснато, щеш не щеш, и без да го харесваш, научаваш кой е. Но това не е страшното, страшното е да го харесваш. А такъв въпрос в тази анкета май няма.

[Bigalo]

Класиката си е класика и не случайно е такава!

[Императорът]

Добре казано, Корков, но и образованието ни е архаично - и това е вярно. Учат се безполезни неща, а важните не се.
Книгите като такива, каквито ги познаваме е добре скоро да се превърнат в анахронизъм, защото всяка книга е отсечено дърво, а отсичането на всяко дърво е "принос" към екологичното скапване на планетата.
А дедо Вазов е мегаархаичен, Елин Пелин е прошляшки писател. Ако едно детенце започне със Старопланинските легенди или някои от разказите на Радичков например (че защо не и с външно забавните, но с дълбок социален смисъл разказчета на Чудомир), по може да остане омагьосано от четенето.

[atb]

Ами да едно време чдях бой за четене, (не че сега съм гений0, ама поне нямаше компютри и по цял ден гонех топката, ходех за риба и тн), пак сега повечето хлапаци са станали "ФИЗИОЛОГИЧНИ КРЕТЕНИ" и само цакат и нищ друго не правят. След време ще стане като на снимката!!!![/url]

[Nikodim]

Много интересен текст от този Валери Стефанов !

Мои размисли:
Правенето на пари е само средство за постигане на целта - един по-качествен и по-смислен живот. Значи: работата опира до ценностите.
Има една книга от Ерих Фром : TO HAVE OR TO BE. Да притежаваш, или да изживееш.Там са казани много важни неща. Да бъдеш - това са ценностите (битието), които ме привличат. Проблемът е, че за да ги постигна - трябва да имам средства.
"Защо инвестирате?" . Отговорът на глупака е " искам да стана богат"
По-разумният отговор е: искам да запазя покупателната способност на парите си ( и да я увелича, ако е възможно )
Аз пък бих отговорил: искам да събера достатъчно средства за да изпълня една моя мечта от детството - да посетя едни далечни страни, които съм си набелязал. И да ги изживея по начина по който аз съм си набелязал.

А защо съм си ги набелязал? Защото години наред съм ЧЕЛ за тях. Гледал съм и снимки/филми за тях, но това не е същото. Снимките/филмите са видимостта. Текстът (книгите) са същността, дълбочината на нещата.
Без книгите никога не би се зародил моят интерес/любопитство/мечта да отида там.

Искам да имам - за да бъда !

[kork]

Дано само така ми се струва,но за мое най-голямо учудване имам усещането,че някой хора от този форум отхвърлят четенето на книги и го определят по скоро за анахронизъм!!!
Бих могъл да пиша по този въпрос твърде много,но по скоро долу ще пейстна нещо което напълно споделям и подкрепям.Разбира се,причината за написването на долния текст е съвсем друга,но определено застъпва доста от обсъжданите проблеми в тази тема.Автора е един от най-уважаваните от мен учени в България ,професор Валери Стефанов.Призовавам тези които смятат четенето за отживелица да направят усилие и да го прочетат докрай,за всички други,приятно четене!



КАКВО ДА ПРАВИМ С ЛИТЕРАТУРАТА?
(ЗА ЦЕЛТА И СМИСЪЛА НА ХУМАНИТАРНОТО ОБРАЗОВАНИЕ)

Валери Стефанов


Когато някой от менторите на българската публичност каже нещо, публичността се заслушва. Тя обича да я поучават.

Обича, дори когато я наставляват прибързани и спекулативни пророци.

Така и с наставленията на социолога Андрей Райчев.

Тъй като Райчев вече се е изказал почти по всички въпроси в тази страна, преди време реши да даде съвети и на българското образование. Не че каза нещо ново, той просто огласи някои трайни нагласи към хуманитарното образование в България.

Като помете творбите на Вазов и Елин Пелин (анахронични и скучни!) и даде строга оценка на преподаването по литература, Райчев посочи и пътищата към истината. Който владее английски и борави с компютри, той ще крачи гордо из новия век и ще се нарече "европеец". Който не успее, ще дреме в периферията на цивилизацията и ще срича "Една българка".

Клетите българчета, които още четат за някаква "българка"!

Клетата баба Илийца, която се превърна в символ на анахронизма и на общественото презрение към литературата!

Дали менторът Андрей Райчев, който говори по този начин за българското културно наследство, и социологът Андрей Райчев, написал великолепния анализ на филма "Сталкер" (и не само него), са едно и също лице?

Оставям без отговор този въпрос. Съветите на "европееца" са ми достатъчни като повод - да поговоря за смисъла на четенето, за непознатите земи, за сталкерите и за духовния опит на днешното българско училище.

Един приятел ми каза наскоро - "В училището е ад!".

"Адът - това е огненото наказание на грешниците" - твърди църквата. "Адът - това са другите!" - казваше Жан-Пол Сартр. "Адът е недостъпен за човешка реч. Той е място на пълна безотговорност и на безкрайна скверност" - казваше Томас Ман.

Знам, че никое определение не покрива изцяло сложността на явлението.

Знам, че въпреки трудностите днешното българско училище е място на много лични усилия, на отговорност и взаимност, на радост от знанието... И всичко това трябва да се зачита, а не да се говори с високомерие и презрение за "даскалите".

Затова се опитах да разбера с какво българското училище е заслужило подобна негативна квалификация. Още повече, че човекът, който ми го каза, има дългогодишен опит в това, което на канцеларски език се нарича "система на образованието". Ето горе-долу отговорите, които получих:

Училището е "ад", защото все повече се снижава респектът към нормите и уважението към ценностите. Ад е, защото българското общество се държи като щраус, който си е заровил главата в пясъка и не иска да види дълбочината на проблемите в образованието. Ад е, защото училището става все по-неспособно да даде добра социална култура на младите поколения. Ад е, защото учителите са безсилни срещу инерциите на системата и затягащото се въже на популизма. Ад е, защото за все повече хора в България знанието не е пътят, който води към успешна реализация. Ад е, защото общественият договор за българското образование е разписан фалшиво.

За каква европейска цивилизация говорим, когато варварството шета по улиците, крещи от екраните и е заседнало до болка в главите!?

От кого да се поучат децата ни? На кого да приличат? С какъв език да говорят?

Да се поучат от чалгата на живота. Да подражават на мутрите. Техните ценности да изповядват. Техния език да говорят. Техните радости да ги привличат.

А политиците да седят на високото. Да се заканват за вечно предстоящата "отговорна работа" в образованието. Да чертаят "приоритети". И да редят сладострастно "концепции".

Ето тук, от самата сърцевина на ада - от самото дъно на общественото безразличие и на политическото лицемерие - идва време да се поговори наистина сериозно за мястото и ролята на хуманитарното образование в българското училище.

Нека тръгнем от една ясна постановка - не всички деца, които завършват училище, ще станат литератори, историци, философи... Не всички ще обикнат литературата или историята.

Но от всички се очаква да станат граждани - хора с добра ценностна ориентация, със способност да избират и с умение да общуват.

Именно училището е ключово значимата точка, мястото, където "населението" трябва да се превърне в "общество" - структура с доминиращо гражданско самосъзнание.

Хуманитарното образование е призвано да моделира и стимулира тъкмо тези способности и ориентации. Митовете, приказките, художествените произведения, изучавани в училище, са незаменими инструменти, за да се въведе младият човек в света на ценностите. Така е било от векове, не виждам нито една причина да не продължи да бъде така и в бъдещето. Детето, което слуша приказка край огнището или чете само край нощната лампа, е част от това невидимо училище на ценностите. В това училище то научава кое е доброто и как да се държи настрани от злото.

Тази е първата, най-общата и най-важната задача на литературата - да спомогне да се изгради моралната "арматура" на нашите деца. Да ги направи мислещи хора и граждански отговорни личности. Защото тъкмо тази морална арматура държи човека изправен и го пази да не се свлече до скотското. Когато за това се погрижим, няма да плачем, че "лошата и завистлива" Европа иска да ни превърне във второразредна интелектуална провинция. Тогава ще знаем, че каквото сме направили, сме си го направили ние самите.

Да се твърди, че литературните творения говорят за умрели светове, е не просто невярно, а е крупна методологическа заблуда или най-долнопробна популистка спекулация. Защото няма мъртви светове. Има светове, в които ние не сме способни да навлезем.

Литературата е възможност за достъп до многообразието на човешкия опит. Тя ни позволява да се ориентираме в миналото, да разбираме настоящето и да създаваме проекти за бъдещето. Когато се научим да я четем и разбираме, тогава имаме достъп до духовните богатства на света и до дълбочините на човека. Тогава знаем, че този свят не свършва със стената на непосредно заобикалящото ни.

Културното наследство не е мъртво, а е диалогично открито. То ни говори и мъдрият говор на хилядите живи текстове ни прави хора, чийто поглед се издига отвъд дигите от всекидневната информационна смет.

Хилядолетия наред човечеството е упражнявало интелектуалните си способности чрез културата на писането и четенето. Да се занемари тази култура, означава да се деградират тъкмо тези способности. Всички, които всячески се стараят да смачкат тази култура, не знаят какво правят. Когато направим едно училище, в което се решават само тестове, кръстословици и викторини, а не се създават текстове и не се култивират способности да се общува, ще се събудим в най-ужасната антиутопия.

Така ще бъде, защото умението за четене е базисно културно умение. Да умееш да четеш, означава да имаш достъп до богатството на човешкия опит. Четенето не е просто разпознаване и смислено свързване на буквите, а развиващата се способност за разбиране. То е интелектуална способност за навлизане в дълбочината на нещата, за градеж на мостове...

Резултатите от изследването PISA ни показаха ясно къде се намираме в скалата с уменията за четене и разбиране. Намираме се на дъното. И ако не се крием от оценителите, както вече успешно го направихме, ще видим, че се готвим да отидем и по-надолу от дъното.

Дали страни като Англия, Германия, Италия..., които поддържат специални институции и развиват национални стратегии за обучение в четене, не знаят какво правят и си губят напразно времето? Дали и там има ментори да им говорят за умрели светове?

Не те, а ние си губим времето в празни приказки и в детински игри на криеница. Не те, а ние сме се запътили към мъртвите светове!

Втората важна задача на хуманитарното образование е пряко свързана с казаното досега. Само добре изградената, социално зрялата личност може да създаде свой по-богат и смислен жизнен проект. Удивително е колко бедни са формите и посоките, в които днешният български човек гледа на своята личностна реализация. Удивително е колко многобройни пътища на личностното съзидание остават пусти. Защото няма кой да ги посочи, няма кой да поведе младите хора по тях. И като няма кой да те поведе, идва манипулаторът или скудоумникът и той те повежда.

Третата задача е чрез хуманитарното образование да се активира творческият потенциал на децата. Преди много време Максим Изповедник е определил човека като officina omnium - работилница, средоточие на всички неща, на всички усилия. Именно в тази духовна работилница се разгръща радостта да се напредва по пътищата на познанието. Но за да заработят истински работилниците на духа, са нужни специални грижи. Нужни са интелектуални "поръчки", които да предизвикат интереса и съпричастието на децата. Затова тук същественият въпрос е - дали българското общество ще си позволи лукса да гледа как се разпилява и деградира потенциалът на българските деца? Кой ще ни прости, ако го направим! Кой ще ни разбере, ако превърнем децата си в запуснати работилници - с угаснали огнища, с потънали в прах инструменти!

Четвъртата задача на хуманитарното образование е по посока на емоционалната култура. Не можем да живеем само в световете на омразата и насилието, а те ни заобикалят все по-плътно. Тъй като много се говори за насилието в училище и извън него, трябва да е ясно, че насилието е гнилият плод на изключително бедната емоционална култура на огромен брой от децата. Младият човек има крещяща необходимост да се доказва, да си "набавя" самоличност. И като не знае как да го направи, го прави по най-елементарния, но ефектен начин - чрез насилието над другите. Вместо да им пращаме психолози - да пазят застрашените и да лекуват болните души - е по-добре да се постараем да възпитаваме чувствата.

Покрай всичко останало литературата и това прави - тя възпитава чувствата, гради форми на чувствителност. Тя ни предлага удивителни възможности да навлезем в различни емоционални режими, да оценим тяхната стойност, да застанем на стража пред доброто.

За да се случи всичко това, е необходимо да се извършат много неща.

Но едно не мога да подмина. Крайно време е училището да се раздели с това, което наричам "дисциплинарен шовинизъм". Простичко казано - всеки "специалист" смята своята наука за най-важната и настоява по съответния "предмет" да се знае максимално. Преосмислянето на максимализма е задължителната крачка. В училището децата трябва да усвояват мисловни модели и базисни знания, а не да се затрупват с хиляди излишни подробности. Подгонени от безумно максималистичните програми, учителите започват да препускат по тях. И защо да се учудваме, че една голяма част от учениците отказват да ги следват.

Вместо да развива умението да се мисли, училището се бори с "урочни единици". Вместо ума се упражнява паметта. Вместо цялост, оставаме с отломъци от слабо функционално и неструктурирано знание.

Проваляме самата идея за цялост и ефективност на националния образователен проект. Трябва добре да си дадем сметка, че днешното училище е наследник на една застаряла и склерозираща форма на парцелиране, "разбягване" на науките. Думите на Гьотевия Мефистофел са изразили най-добре предизвикателството, пред което сме изправени - "умело всички части насъбрал, но връзката духовна изтървал".

Време е да вържем духовните връзки на българското училище!

Време е да вържем връзките между разлетелите се "предмети"!

Време е да разберем, че компютрите са инструменти, а не са цел!

Време е да разберем, че чуждите езици са нищо без базисното умение да общуваш и да разбираш другите.

Да се погрижим за хуманитарното образование не утре, а днес, означава да проявим човешка прозорливост, социална зрялост и гражданска отговорност.

Означава да спрем оскотяването на езика и разпадането на нацията.

И когато видим дете, разтворило книга - да стихнем.

И да си кажем - "Нека бъдем внимателни, защото сега то се труди в своята работилница!"
http://liternet.bg/publish/vstefanov/kakvo.htm

[Krasimira]

Искам само да попитам - какъв е етническият състав на проучените тийнейджъри? Защото ако са карали на случаен принцип, нещата са обясними и наред - то поне 30 процента са хъхрещи.... Ясно е, че те ще знаят кой е мангалът-травестит Азис, но не и Дарвин... ама той и Дарвин би и оскубал брадището от ужас, ако ги види тях.

Явно е така - щото по мои наблюдения, нещата не са толкова ужасни, колкото ги представят... споко - Българският тийнейджър като цяло не е толкова тъп и неук... такъв е бъдещият му роб - хъхрещият тийнейджър.

Абе импе, нали не ходеха на училище, кво стана!!!! Ти май обръщаш палачинката във всяка тема, както ти изнася

[Bigalo]

"25 на сто от младежите са употребявали трева, а два процента - твърди наркотици" 100% са много повече, в класовете повече са тези, които пушат редовно или са пробвали от другите. Само да кажа на г-н Колев, просто не си признават

[Императорът]

Искам само да попитам - какъв е етническият състав на проучените тийнейджъри? Защото ако са карали на случаен принцип, нещата са обясними и наред - то поне 30 процента са хъхрещи.... Ясно е, че те ще знаят кой е мангалът-травестит Азис, но не и Дарвин... ама той и Дарвин би и оскубал брадището от ужас, ако ги види тях.

Явно е така - щото по мои наблюдения, нещата не са толкова ужасни, колкото ги представят... споко - Българският тийнейджър като цяло не е толкова тъп и неук... такъв е бъдещият му роб - хъхрещият тийнейджър.

[Heraclitus]

FYI.


..........a classsic ........


by Gutenberg Project

..............................

CRITIAS.


PERSONS OF THE DIALOGUE: Critias, Hermocrates, Timaeus, Socrates.


TIMAEUS: How thankful I am, Socrates, that I have arrived at last, and,
like a weary traveller after a long journey, may be at rest! And I pray
the being who always was of old, and has now been by me revealed, to grant
that my words may endure in so far as they have been spoken truly and
acceptably to him; but if unintentionally I have said anything wrong, I
pray that he will impose upon me a just retribution, and the just
retribution of him who errs is that he should be set right. Wishing, then,
to speak truly in future concerning the generation of the gods, I pray him
to give me knowledge, which of all medicines is the most perfect and best.
And now having offered my prayer I deliver up the argument to Critias, who
is to speak next according to our agreement. (Tim.)

CRITIAS: And I, Timaeus, accept the trust, and as you at first said that
you were going to speak of high matters, and begged that some forbearance
might be shown to you, I too ask the same or greater forbearance for what I
am about to say. And although I very well know that my request may appear
to be somewhat ambitious and discourteous, I must make it nevertheless.
For will any man of sense deny that you have spoken well? I can only
attempt to show that I ought to have more indulgence than you, because my
theme is more difficult; and I shall argue that to seem to speak well of
the gods to men is far easier than to speak well of men to men: for the
inexperience and utter ignorance of his hearers about any subject is a
great assistance to him who has to speak of it, and we know how ignorant we
are concerning the gods. But I should like to make my meaning clearer, if
you will follow me. All that is said by any of us can only be imitation
and representation. For if we consider the likenesses which painters make
of bodies divine and heavenly, and the different degrees of gratification
with which the eye of the spectator receives them, we shall see that we are
satisfied with the artist who is able in any degree to imitate the earth
and its mountains, and the rivers, and the woods, and the universe, and the
things that are and move therein, and further, that knowing nothing precise
about such matters, we do not examine or analyze the painting; all that is
required is a sort of indistinct and deceptive mode of shadowing them
forth. But when a person endeavours to paint the human form we are quick
at finding out defects, and our familiar knowledge makes us severe judges
of any one who does not render every point of similarity. And we may
observe the same thing to happen in discourse; we are satisfied with a
picture of divine and heavenly things which has very little likeness to
them; but we are more precise in our criticism of mortal and human things.
Wherefore if at the moment of speaking I cannot suitably express my
meaning, you must excuse me, considering that to form approved likenesses
of human things is the reverse of easy. This is what I want to suggest to
you, and at the same time to beg, Socrates, that I may have not less, but
more indulgence conceded to me in what I am about to say. Which favour, if
I am right in asking, I hope that you will be ready to grant.

SOCRATES: Certainly, Critias, we will grant your request, and we will
grant the same by anticipation to Hermocrates, as well as to you and
Timaeus; for I have no doubt that when his turn comes a little while hence,
he will make the same request which you have made. In order, then, that he
may provide himself with a fresh beginning, and not be compelled to say the
same things over again, let him understand that the indulgence is already
extended by anticipation to him. And now, friend Critias, I will announce
to you the judgment of the theatre. They are of opinion that the last
performer was wonderfully successful, and that you will need a great deal
of indulgence before you will be able to take his place.

HERMOCRATES: The warning, Socrates, which you have addressed to him, I
must also take to myself. But remember, Critias, that faint heart never
yet raised a trophy; and therefore you must go and attack the argument like
a man. First invoke Apollo and the Muses, and then let us hear you sound
the praises and show forth the virtues of your ancient citizens.

CRITIAS: Friend Hermocrates, you, who are stationed last and have another
in front of you, have not lost heart as yet; the gravity of the situation
will soon be revealed to you; meanwhile I accept your exhortations and
encouragements. But besides the gods and goddesses whom you have
mentioned, I would specially invoke Mnemosyne; for all the important part
of my discourse is dependent on her favour, and if I can recollect and
recite enough of what was said by the priests and brought hither by Solon,
I doubt not that I shall satisfy the requirements of this theatre. And
now, making no more excuses, I will proceed.

Let me begin by observing first of all, that nine thousand was the sum of
years which had elapsed since the war which was said to have taken place
between those who dwelt outside the pillars of Heracles and all who dwelt
within them; this war I am going to describe. Of the combatants on the one
side, the city of Athens was reported to have been the leader and to have
fought out the war; the combatants on the other side were commanded by the
kings of Atlantis, which, as I was saying, was an island greater in extent
than Libya and Asia, and when afterwards sunk by an earthquake, became an
impassable barrier of mud to voyagers sailing from hence to any part of the
ocean. The progress of the history will unfold the various nations of
barbarians and families of Hellenes which then existed, as they
successively appear on the scene; but I must describe first of all the
Athenians of that day, and their enemies who fought with them, and then the
respective powers and governments of the two kingdoms. Let us give the
precedence to Athens.

In the days of old, the gods had the whole earth distributed among them by
allotment (Cp. Polit.) There was no quarrelling; for you cannot rightly
suppose that the gods did not know what was proper for each of them to
have, or, knowing this, that they would seek to procure for themselves by
contention that which more properly belonged to others. They all of them
by just apportionment obtained what they wanted, and peopled their own
districts; and when they had peopled them they tended us, their nurselings
and possessions, as shepherds tend their flocks, excepting only that they
did not use blows or bodily force, as shepherds do, but governed us like
pilots from the stern of the vessel, which is an easy way of guiding
animals, holding our souls by the rudder of persuasion according to their
own pleasure;--thus did they guide all mortal creatures. Now different
gods had their allotments in different places which they set in order.
Hephaestus and Athene, who were brother and sister, and sprang from the
same father, having a common nature, and being united also in the love of
philosophy and art, both obtained as their common portion this land, which
was naturally adapted for wisdom and virtue; and there they implanted brave
children of the soil, and put into their minds the order of government;
their names are preserved, but their actions have disappeared by reason of
the destruction of those who received the tradition, and the lapse of ages.
For when there were any survivors, as I have already said, they were men
who dwelt in the mountains; and they were ignorant of the art of writing,
and had heard only the names of the chiefs of the land, but very little
about their actions. The names they were willing enough to give to their
children; but the virtues and the laws of their predecessors, they knew
only by obscure traditions; and as they themselves and their children
lacked for many generations the necessaries of life, they directed their
attention to the supply of their wants, and of them they conversed, to the
neglect of events that had happened in times long past; for mythology and
the enquiry into antiquity are first introduced into cities when they begin
to have leisure (Cp. Arist. Metaphys.), and when they see that the
necessaries of life have already been provided, but not before. And this
is the reason why the names of the ancients have been preserved to us and
not their actions. This I infer because Solon said that the priests in
their narrative of that war mentioned most of the names which are recorded
prior to the time of Theseus, such as Cecrops, and Erechtheus, and
Erichthonius, and Erysichthon, and the names of the women in like manner.
Moreover, since military pursuits were then common to men and women, the
men of those days in accordance with the custom of the time set up a figure
and image of the goddess in full armour, to be a testimony that all animals
which associate together, male as well as female, may, if they please,
practise in common the virtue which belongs to them without distinction of
sex.

Now the country was inhabited in those days by various classes of
citizens;--there were artisans, and there were husbandmen, and there was
also a warrior class originally set apart by divine men. The latter dwelt
by themselves, and had all things suitable for nurture and education;
neither had any of them anything of their own, but they regarded all that
they had as common property; nor did they claim to receive of the other
citizens anything more than their necessary food. And they practised all
the pursuits which we yesterday described as those of our imaginary
guardians. Concerning the country the Egyptian priests said what is not
only probable but manifestly true, that the boundaries were in those days
fixed by the Isthmus, and that in the direction of the continent they
extended as far as the heights of Cithaeron and Parnes; the boundary line
came down in the direction of the sea, having the district of Oropus on the
right, and with the river Asopus as the limit on the left. The land was
the best in the world, and was therefore able in those days to support a
vast army, raised from the surrounding people. Even the remnant of Attica
which now exists may compare with any region in the world for the variety
and excellence of its fruits and the suitableness of its pastures to every
sort of animal, which proves what I am saying; but in those days the
country was fair as now and yielded far more abundant produce. How shall I
establish my words? and what part of it can be truly called a remnant of
the land that then was? The whole country is only a long promontory
extending far into the sea away from the rest of the continent, while the
surrounding basin of the sea is everywhere deep in the neighbourhood of the
shore. Many great deluges have taken place during the nine thousand years,
for that is the number of years which have elapsed since the time of which
I am speaking; and during all this time and through so many changes, there
has never been any considerable accumulation of the soil coming down from
the mountains, as in other places, but the earth has fallen away all round
and sunk out of sight. The consequence is, that in comparison of what then
was, there are remaining only the bones of the wasted body, as they may be
called, as in the case of small islands, all the richer and softer parts of
the soil having fallen away, and the mere skeleton of the land being left.
But in the primitive state of the country, its mountains were high hills
covered with soil, and the plains, as they are termed by us, of Phelleus
were full of rich earth, and there was abundance of wood in the mountains.
Of this last the traces still remain, for although some of the mountains
now only afford sustenance to bees, not so very long ago there were still
to be seen roofs of timber cut from trees growing there, which were of a
size sufficient to cover the largest houses; and there were many other high
trees, cultivated by man and bearing abundance of food for cattle.
Moreover, the land reaped the benefit of the annual rainfall, not as now
losing the water which flows off the bare earth into the sea, but, having
an abundant supply in all places, and receiving it into herself and
treasuring it up in the close clay soil, it let off into the hollows the
streams which it absorbed from the heights, providing everywhere abundant
fountains and rivers, of which there may still be observed sacred memorials
in places where fountains once existed; and this proves the truth of what I
am saying.

Such was the natural state of the country, which was cultivated, as we may
well believe, by true husbandmen, who made husbandry their business, and
were lovers of honour, and of a noble nature, and had a soil the best in
the world, and abundance of water, and in the heaven above an excellently
attempered climate. Now the city in those days was arranged on this wise.
In the first place the Acropolis was not as now. For the fact is that a
single night of excessive rain washed away the earth and laid bare the
rock; at the same time there were earthquakes, and then occurred the
extraordinary inundation, which was the third before the great destruction
of Deucalion. But in primitive times the hill of the Acropolis extended to
the Eridanus and Ilissus, and included the Pnyx on one side, and the
Lycabettus as a boundary on the opposite side to the Pnyx, and was all well
covered with soil, and level at the top, except in one or two places.
Outside the Acropolis and under the sides of the hill there dwelt artisans,
and such of the husbandmen as were tilling the ground near; the warrior
class dwelt by themselves around the temples of Athene and Hephaestus at
the summit, which moreover they had enclosed with a single fence like the
garden of a single house. On the north side they had dwellings in common
and had erected halls for dining in winter, and had all the buildings which
they needed for their common life, besides temples, but there was no
adorning of them with gold and silver, for they made no use of these for
any purpose; they took a middle course between meanness and ostentation,
and built modest houses in which they and their children's children grew
old, and they handed them down to others who were like themselves, always
the same. But in summer-time they left their gardens and gymnasia and
dining halls, and then the southern side of the hill was made use of by
them for the same purpose. Where the Acropolis now is there was a
fountain, which was choked by the earthquake, and has left only the few
small streams which still exist in the vicinity, but in those days the
fountain gave an abundant supply of water for all and of suitable
temperature in summer and in winter. This is how they dwelt, being the
guardians of their own citizens and the leaders of the Hellenes, who were
their willing followers. And they took care to preserve the same number of
men and women through all time, being so many as were required for warlike
purposes, then as now--that is to say, about twenty thousand. Such were
the ancient Athenians, and after this manner they righteously administered
their own land and the rest of Hellas; they were renowned all over Europe
and Asia for the beauty of their persons and for the many virtues of their
souls, and of all men who lived in those days they were the most
illustrious. And next, if I have not forgotten what I heard when I was a
child, I will impart to you the character and origin of their adversaries.
For friends should not keep their stories to themselves, but have them in
common.

Yet, before proceeding further in the narrative, I ought to warn you, that
you must not be surprised if you should perhaps hear Hellenic names given
to foreigners. I will tell you the reason of this: Solon, who was
intending to use the tale for his poem, enquired into the meaning of the
names, and found that the early Egyptians in writing them down had
translated them into their own language, and he recovered the meaning of
the several names and when copying them out again translated them into our
language. My great-grandfather, Dropides, had the original writing, which
is still in my possession, and was carefully studied by me when I was a
child. Therefore if you hear names such as are used in this country, you
must not be surprised, for I have told how they came to be introduced. The
tale, which was of great length, began as follows:--

I have before remarked in speaking of the allotments of the gods, that they
distributed the whole earth into portions differing in extent, and made for
themselves temples and instituted sacrifices. And Poseidon, receiving for
his lot the island of Atlantis, begat children by a mortal woman, and
settled them in a part of the island, which I will describe. Looking
towards the sea, but in the centre of the whole island, there was a plain
which is said to have been the fairest of all plains and very fertile.
Near the plain again, and also in the centre of the island at a distance of
about fifty stadia, there was a mountain not very high on any side. In
this mountain there dwelt one of the earth-born primeval men of that
country, whose name was Evenor, and he had a wife named Leucippe, and they
had an only daughter who was called Cleito. The maiden had already reached
womanhood, when her father and mother died; Poseidon fell in love with her
and had intercourse with her, and breaking the ground, inclosed the hill in
which she dwelt all round, making alternate zones of sea and land larger
and smaller, encircling one another; there were two of land and three of
water, which he turned as with a lathe, each having its circumference
equidistant every way from the centre, so that no man could get to the
island, for ships and voyages were not as yet. He himself, being a god,
found no difficulty in making special arrangements for the centre island,
bringing up two springs of water from beneath the earth, one of warm water
and the other of cold, and making every variety of food to spring up
abundantly from the soil. He also begat and brought up five pairs of twin
male children; and dividing the island of Atlantis into ten portions, he
gave to the first-born of the eldest pair his mother's dwelling and the
surrounding allotment, which was the largest and best, and made him king
over the rest; the others he made princes, and gave them rule over many
men, and a large territory. And he named them all; the eldest, who was the
first king, he named Atlas, and after him the whole island and the ocean
were called Atlantic. To his twin brother, who was born after him, and
obtained as his lot the extremity of the island towards the pillars of
Heracles, facing the country which is now called the region of Gades in
that part of the world, he gave the name which in the Hellenic language is
Eumelus, in the language of the country which is named after him, Gadeirus.
Of the second pair of twins he called one Ampheres, and the other Evaemon.
To the elder of the third pair of twins he gave the name Mneseus, and
Autochthon to the one who followed him. Of the fourth pair of twins he
called the elder Elasippus, and the younger Mestor. And of the fifth pair
he gave to the elder the name of Azaes, and to the younger that of
Diaprepes. All these and their descendants for many generations were the
inhabitants and rulers of divers islands in the open sea; and also, as has
been already said, they held sway in our direction over the country within
the pillars as far as Egypt and Tyrrhenia. Now Atlas had a numerous and
honourable family, and they retained the kingdom, the eldest son handing it
on to his eldest for many generations; and they had such an amount of
wealth as was never before possessed by kings and potentates, and is not
likely ever to be again, and they were furnished with everything which they
needed, both in the city and country. For because of the greatness of
their empire many things were brought to them from foreign countries, and
the island itself provided most of what was required by them for the uses
of life. In the first place, they dug out of the earth whatever was to be
found there, solid as well as fusile, and that which is now only a name and
was then something more than a name, orichalcum, was dug out of the earth
in many parts of the island, being more precious in those days than
anything except gold. There was an abundance of wood for carpenter's work,
and sufficient maintenance for tame and wild animals. Moreover, there were
a great number of elephants in the island; for as there was provision for
all other sorts of animals, both for those which live in lakes and marshes
and rivers, and also for those which live in mountains and on plains, so
there was for the animal which is the largest and most voracious of all.
Also whatever fragrant things there now are in the earth, whether roots, or
herbage, or woods, or essences which distil from fruit and flower, grew and
thrived in that land; also the fruit which admits of cultivation, both the
dry sort, which is given us for nourishment and any other which we use for
food--we call them all by the common name of pulse, and the fruits having a
hard rind, affording drinks and meats and ointments, and good store of
chestnuts and the like, which furnish pleasure and amusement, and are
fruits which spoil with keeping, and the pleasant kinds of dessert, with
which we console ourselves after dinner, when we are tired of eating--all
these that sacred island which then beheld the light of the sun, brought
forth fair and wondrous and in infinite abundance. With such blessings the
earth freely furnished them; meanwhile they went on constructing their
temples and palaces and harbours and docks. And they arranged the whole
country in the following manner:--

First of all they bridged over the zones of sea which surrounded the
ancient metropolis, making a road to and from the royal palace. And at the
very beginning they built the palace in the habitation of the god and of
their ancestors, which they continued to ornament in successive
generations, every king surpassing the one who went before him to the
utmost of his power, until they made the building a marvel to behold for
size and for beauty. And beginning from the sea they bored a canal of
three hundred feet in width and one hundred feet in depth and fifty stadia
in length, which they carried through to the outermost zone, making a
passage from the sea up to this, which became a harbour, and leaving an
opening sufficient to enable the largest vessels to find ingress.
Moreover, they divided at the bridges the zones of land which parted the
zones of sea, leaving room for a single trireme to pass out of one zone
into another, and they covered over the channels so as to leave a way
underneath for the ships; for the banks were raised considerably above the
water. Now the largest of the zones into which a passage was cut from the
sea was three stadia in breadth, and the zone of land which came next of
equal breadth; but the next two zones, the one of water, the other of land,
were two stadia, and the one which surrounded the central island was a
stadium only in width. The island in which the palace was situated had a
diameter of five stadia. All this including the zones and the bridge,
which was the sixth part of a stadium in width, they surrounded by a stone
wall on every side, placing towers and gates on the bridges where the sea
passed in. The stone which was used in the work they quarried from
underneath the centre island, and from underneath the zones, on the outer
as well as the inner side. One kind was white, another black, and a third
red, and as they quarried, they at the same time hollowed out double docks,
having roofs formed out of the native rock. Some of their buildings were
simple, but in others they put together different stones, varying the
colour to please the eye, and to be a natural source of delight. The
entire circuit of the wall, which went round the outermost zone, they
covered with a coating of brass, and the circuit of the next wall they
coated with tin, and the third, which encompassed the citadel, flashed with
the red light of orichalcum. The palaces in the interior of the citadel
were constructed on this wise:--In the centre was a holy temple dedicated
to Cleito and Poseidon, which remained inaccessible, and was surrounded by
an enclosure of gold; this was the spot where the family of the ten princes
first saw the light, and thither the people annually brought the fruits of
the earth in their season from all the ten portions, to be an offering to
each of the ten. Here was Poseidon's own temple which was a stadium in
length, and half a stadium in width, and of a proportionate height, having
a strange barbaric appearance. All the outside of the temple, with the
exception of the pinnacles, they covered with silver, and the pinnacles
with gold. In the interior of the temple the roof was of ivory, curiously
wrought everywhere with gold and silver and orichalcum; and all the other
parts, the walls and pillars and floor, they coated with orichalcum. In
the temple they placed statues of gold: there was the god himself standing
in a chariot--the charioteer of six winged horses--and of such a size that
he touched the roof of the building with his head; around him there were a
hundred Nereids riding on dolphins, for such was thought to be the number
of them by the men of those days. There were also in the interior of the
temple other images which had been dedicated by private persons. And
around the temple on the outside were placed statues of gold of all the
descendants of the ten kings and of their wives, and there were many other
great offerings of kings and of private persons, coming both from the city
itself and from the foreign cities over which they held sway. There was an
altar too, which in size and workmanship corresponded to this magnificence,
and the palaces, in like manner, answered to the greatness of the kingdom
and the glory of the temple.

In the next place, they had fountains, one of cold and another of hot
water, in gracious plenty flowing; and they were wonderfully adapted for
use by reason of the pleasantness and excellence of their waters. They
constructed buildings about them and planted suitable trees, also they made
cisterns, some open to the heaven, others roofed over, to be used in winter
as warm baths; there were the kings' baths, and the baths of private
persons, which were kept apart; and there were separate baths for women,
and for horses and cattle, and to each of them they gave as much adornment
as was suitable. Of the water which ran off they carried some to the grove
of Poseidon, where were growing all manner of trees of wonderful height and
beauty, owing to the excellence of the soil, while the remainder was
conveyed by aqueducts along the bridges to the outer circles; and there
were many temples built and dedicated to many gods; also gardens and places
of exercise, some for men, and others for horses in both of the two islands
formed by the zones; and in the centre of the larger of the two there was
set apart a race-course of a stadium in width, and in length allowed to
extend all round the island, for horses to race in. Also there were guard-
houses at intervals for the guards, the more trusted of whom were appointed
to keep watch in the lesser zone, which was nearer the Acropolis; while the
most trusted of all had houses given them within the citadel, near the
persons of the kings. The docks were full of triremes and naval stores,
and all things were quite ready for use. Enough of the plan of the royal
palace.

Leaving the palace and passing out across the three harbours, you came to a
wall which began at the sea and went all round: this was everywhere
distant fifty stadia from the largest zone or harbour, and enclosed the
whole, the ends meeting at the mouth of the channel which led to the sea.
The entire area was densely crowded with habitations; and the canal and the
largest of the harbours were full of vessels and merchants coming from all
parts, who, from their numbers, kept up a multitudinous sound of human
voices, and din and clatter of all sorts night and day.

I have described the city and the environs of the ancient palace nearly in
the words of Solon, and now I must endeavour to represent to you the nature
and arrangement of the rest of the land. The whole country was said by him
to be very lofty and precipitous on the side of the sea, but the country
immediately about and surrounding the city was a level plain, itself
surrounded by mountains which descended towards the sea; it was smooth and
even, and of an oblong shape, extending in one direction three thousand
stadia, but across the centre inland it was two thousand stadia. This part
of the island looked towards the south, and was sheltered from the north.
The surrounding mountains were celebrated for their number and size and
beauty, far beyond any which still exist, having in them also many wealthy
villages of country folk, and rivers, and lakes, and meadows supplying food
enough for every animal, wild or tame, and much wood of various sorts,
abundant for each and every kind of work.

I will now describe the plain, as it was fashioned by nature and by the
labours of many generations of kings through long ages. It was for the
most part rectangular and oblong, and where falling out of the straight
line followed the circular ditch. The depth, and width, and length of this
ditch were incredible, and gave the impression that a work of such extent,
in addition to so many others, could never have been artificial.
Nevertheless I must say what I was told. It was excavated to the depth of
a hundred feet, and its breadth was a stadium everywhere; it was carried
round the whole of the plain, and was ten thousand stadia in length. It
received the streams which came down from the mountains, and winding round
the plain and meeting at the city, was there let off into the sea. Further
inland, likewise, straight canals of a hundred feet in width were cut from
it through the plain, and again let off into the ditch leading to the sea:
these canals were at intervals of a hundred stadia, and by them they
brought down the wood from the mountains to the city, and conveyed the
fruits of the earth in ships, cutting transverse passages from one canal
into another, and to the city. Twice in the year they gathered the fruits
of the earth--in winter having the benefit of the rains of heaven, and in
summer the water which the land supplied by introducing streams from the
canals.

As to the population, each of the lots in the plain had to find a leader
for the men who were fit for military service, and the size of a lot was a
square of ten stadia each way, and the total number of all the lots was
sixty thousand. And of the inhabitants of the mountains and of the rest of
the country there was also a vast multitude, which was distributed among
the lots and had leaders assigned to them according to their districts and
villages. The leader was required to furnish for the war the sixth portion
of a war-chariot, so as to make up a total of ten thousand chariots; also
two horses and riders for them, and a pair of chariot-horses without a
seat, accompanied by a horseman who could fight on foot carrying a small
shield, and having a charioteer who stood behind the man-at-arms to guide
the two horses; also, he was bound to furnish two heavy-armed soldiers, two
archers, two slingers, three stone-shooters and three javelin-men, who were
light-armed, and four sailors to make up the complement of twelve hundred
ships. Such was the military order of the royal city--the order of the
other nine governments varied, and it would be wearisome to recount their
several differences.

As to offices and honours, the following was the arrangement from the
first. Each of the ten kings in his own division and in his own city had
the absolute control of the citizens, and, in most cases, of the laws,
punishing and slaying whomsoever he would. Now the order of precedence
among them and their mutual relations were regulated by the commands of
Poseidon which the law had handed down. These were inscribed by the first
kings on a pillar of orichalcum, which was situated in the middle of the
island, at the temple of Poseidon, whither the kings were gathered together
every fifth and every sixth year alternately, thus giving equal honour to
the odd and to the even number. And when they were gathered together they
consulted about their common interests, and enquired if any one had
transgressed in anything, and passed judgment, and before they passed
judgment they gave their pledges to one another on this wise:--There were
bulls who had the range of the temple of Poseidon; and the ten kings, being
left alone in the temple, after they had offered prayers to the god that
they might capture the victim which was acceptable to him, hunted the
bulls, without weapons, but with staves and nooses; and the bull which they
caught they led up to the pillar and cut its throat over the top of it so
that the blood fell upon the sacred inscription. Now on the pillar,
besides the laws, there was inscribed an oath invoking mighty curses on the
disobedient. When therefore, after slaying the bull in the accustomed
manner, they had burnt its limbs, they filled a bowl of wine and cast in a
clot of blood for each of them; the rest of the victim they put in the
fire, after having purified the column all round. Then they drew from the
bowl in golden cups, and pouring a libation on the fire, they swore that
they would judge according to the laws on the pillar, and would punish him
who in any point had already transgressed them, and that for the future
they would not, if they could help, offend against the writing on the
pillar, and would neither command others, nor obey any ruler who commanded
them, to act otherwise than according to the laws of their father Poseidon.
This was the prayer which each of them offered up for himself and for his
descendants, at the same time drinking and dedicating the cup out of which
he drank in the temple of the god; and after they had supped and satisfied
their needs, when darkness came on, and the fire about the sacrifice was
cool, all of them put on most beautiful azure robes, and, sitting on the
ground, at night, over the embers of the sacrifices by which they had
sworn, and extinguishing all the fire about the temple, they received and
gave judgment, if any of them had an accusation to bring against any one;
and when they had given judgment, at daybreak they wrote down their
sentences on a golden tablet, and dedicated it together with their robes to
be a memorial.

[Bigalo]

Според мен всичко е в книгите, всичко което те интересува може да се намери там.

[bondinio]

Четенето на художествена литература формира умението да се чете най-вече. След това с каквото и по-специализирано нещо да се захване човек се изисква да може да се справя с големи текстове. Хората несвикнали да четат систематично не могат да допрочетат нито един учебник или специализирана книга, скачат напосоки от страница на страница по подобие на уеб сайт и в резултат не разбират материята в дълбочина.

е не виждам защо пък трябва да е художествена(това с въображението сигурно е вярно но не мисля че е толкова важно за образованието)
ако чета само сайтове сигурно ще се справям също толкова добре с четенето колкото и ако чета художествена литература
художествената литература е за забавление - тя е еквивалента на телевизията сега, не мисля че оптималния начин човек да се развие и образова е като чете измишльотини - да така също се обогатяваш но в духа на форума мисля че коефициента време/полза не е добър

[Ку-Ку]

Четенето на художествена литература формира умението да се чете най-вече. След това с каквото и по-специализирано нещо да се захване човек се изисква да може да се справя с големи текстове. Хората несвикнали да четат систематично не могат да допрочетат нито един учебник или специализирана книга, скачат напосоки от страница на страница по подобие на уеб сайт и в резултат не разбират материята в дълбочина.