Оперативната печалба на S&P 500 е средно $20 на ак

[trader1]

Earnings before bad stuff

Njakolko reda ot newsletter, koito cheta i namiram za dosta reasonable most of the times:
Wall Street is the world"s greatest salesmen. Analysts are salesmen and saleswomen. That"s why they are referred to as the "sell side" of Wall Street. There are currently 15 analysts covering Enron, 6 recommend the stock a Strong Buy!?! (Nov. 29)
Gurus are not. In October"s Money Magazine, Abbey Joseph Cohen said Enron represented a "good value" in the energy sector. The stock traded above $30 at the time.

Dori i da ne ste super-expert na techn. analiz - poglednete tazi grafika i obarnete vnimanie na trading volume sled nachaloto na Nov...

http://www.site64.com/daily/images/enron.gif

[Emil Dimitrov-Peregrine]

Earnings before bad stuff

You got that right!-they excluded three partnerships of their statements,there was a billion dollar "error" several years ago, and finally ,the results for the last three years were overstated by more than a half-billion dollars.I tova ako ne e manipulatzia...

[Камен Кирилов]

Earnings before bad stuff

Хммм, бил си дълъг в Enron? Ако си правил fundamental analysis би трябвало да е ясно, че компанията си има проблеми или може би греша? Чувам, че има съмненения че отчетите им са били манипулирани.

[Наивник]

Earnings before bad stuff

A представяш ли си какво им е на работниците с по 5-10 000 акции от компанията в техните пенсионни планове. Ние какво - бизнес, днес губиш, утре печелиш, е благодарен съм, че вчера загубих 2000, а не 10000, обаче такова нещо като с ЕNE никога не се е случвало.

[Камен Кирилов]

Earnings before bad stuff

Историята с Enron се оказва нещо страшно. Крезитните агенции също са се изложили:

Lobbying Kept Agencies
From Issuing Warnings
By GREGORY ZUCKERMAN and JATHON SAPSFORD
Staff Reporters of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

It now seems clear that the rating agencies, like most securities analysts, seem to have too easily accepted Enron"s murky financial reporting, which gave the impression that the company"s balance sheet was stronger than it was. As recently as late October, both Moody"s Corp."s Moody"s and McGraw-Hill Cos." S&P had a solid investment-grade rating on Enron"s debt.

[Emil Dimitrov-Peregrine]

Earnings before bad stuff

Eto i purvata zhertva na hideously complex financial statements,izdadeni ot samata compania-Enron(ENE)Ot 37 samo predi malko poveche ot mesetz(10-11) ,dnes padna do .60.The dot-com boom-a zasili naistina nasty trend-companiite izmislyat tehni novi nachini na calculirane i schetovodstvo.Koeto e oshte po-losho-ulitzata(Wall Street),nachelo s nay-izyavenite pundits priemat tezi statements,koito sa nay-rozovi.
Earnings-net income,operating earnings,core earnings,pro forma earnings,EBIDTA.(izberete si nay-silnite!)
COST-special charges,Assets impairment,Goodwill Imarements,Restructuring Reservs,Writes Down(izberete nay-visokata-Everything Goes!)
Sluchaya s ENE niama da e posleden i e vreme for SEC da vzeme reshenie otnosnothe earnings chaos i standartizirane na shetovodnite pravila za vsichki listed companies,inache shte ima oshte mnogo kato Enron(ne che pechalbata ne e sladka ako si short,prosto stava vupros za misconception & misenterpretation.

[Камен Кирилов]

Earnings before bad stuff

Отново искам да се намеся в дискусията. По-долу е част от анализ на Wall Street Journal, където се казва, че pro forma earnings не са това, което са. Бих искал някой от специалистите тук да ми обясни доколко и кога трябва да се гледат pro forma резултатите на компаниите. На мен ми изглежда логично данните по GAAP да са по-показателни.

Securities and Exchange Commission officials also have warned investors not to get suckered by "earnings before bad stuff" news releases. But the SEC says it has little if any authority to clamp down on pro forma calculations in news releases, as long as they are mathematically accurate.
At the same time that pro forma accounting is growing, so is the start of a backlash. One example: Last month analysts who follow real-estate investment trusts for Merrill Lynch, Morgan Stanley and Citigroup"s Salomon Smith Barney unit announced they would start focusing more on GAAP and less on those industries" established pro forma metrics.

[Teodor Naoumov]

I/B/E/S

Na praktika Thomson Financial parvo kupi First Call posle v posledno vreme kupi i Primark, koito pak biaha kupili predi godini I/B/E/S. Tova koeto ti citirash e interesno i vednaga pisah edno pismo do Thomson Financial da iskam potvarjdenie na informaciata. Predi mesec mi dadoha informaciata koiato ti citirah

[Терминатор]

I/B/E/S

Не знам откъде е тази информация, че First Call се вливат в I/B/E/S, но ми се струва нещо странна, защото доколкото знам аз I/B/E/S и First Call са към Thomson Financial. Това се потвържсава и от техния сайт:

"


In the fall of 2000, The Thomson Corporation acquired Primark and its stable of brands, among them I/B/E/S and Datastream. Since then, Thomson Financial has
integrated I/B/E/S, First Call and Datastream into an organization focused on research and analytics. Also, I/B/E/S has been fully integrated onto the First Call
Web-site, www.firstcall.com. Collectively, the totally revamped site represents 50 years of experience between I/B/E/S and First Call, providing
best-of-breed financial content and pioneering technology product lines to the global buy-side and sell-side communities.

Guided by client input, we spent the first months following the acquisition analyzing how First Call and I/B/E/S conduct their businesses, covering areas such
as content collection, dissemination, platforms, and account management. While we have uncovered some overlap in product offerings, on the whole the two
businesses are quite complementary. For example, I/B/E/S has wide coverage in Europe, Asia and emerging markets, while First Call has extensive coverage
in the United States. First Call is the industry standard for distribution of brokerage research reports and morning meeting notes, while I/B/E/S prides itself on its
30-year history of analyst estimates.

Some customers have asked whether we plan to use the First Call estimate database or the I/B/E/S database going forward. Right now, our attention is
focused on improving both databases by actively adding new data items and strengthening contributor feeds. As always, clients and redistributors will be
given advance notice of any significant change. In the interim, we ask that brokers continue to deliver their analyst estimate data to both First Call and I/B/E/S.

We are committed to building an improved array of services that incorporates the timeliness of First Call with the quantitative strengths and international
coverage of I/B/E/S. During this time, there has not been nor will there be any interruption of service to our customers, and we will keep our customers
informed every step of the way. We are committed to ensuring a smooth transition, and we will notify customers about any changes as they are instituted."

[Камен Кирилов]

proforma earnings

URL for this Article:
http://interactive.wsj.com/archive/r...4480235240.djm

Hyperlinks in this Article:
(1) http://interactive.wsj.com/archive/r...4717089333.djm

[Камен Кирилов]

proforma earnings

Да, май прав си за proforma earnings... Мразя когато някой друг е прав. Обаче четох една статия където се обясняваше точно това - че няма никаква точна дефиниция за този вид печалба и това обърква инвеститорите. Ето един откъс - не пускам цялата статия за да не задръстя форума излишно.

The move by S&P, a unit of McGraw-Hill Cos., represents the latest twist in the growing controversy over "pro forma" profitability measures, which are calculated by many companies across all industries "as if" certain ordinary items -- usually expenses -- didn"t exist. Normally, companies label these nonstandard profit measures with terms like "pro forma earnings," "cash earnings" or "operating earnings." S&P says it would like to create industry standards to eliminate confusion for analysts and investors, by creating a uniform definition for the term "operating earnings," which today has no generally accepted definition.

[Teodor Naoumov]

proforma earnings

Terminator,
Az komentirah tova , koeto izleze vchera kato News v InvestorBG.
Informaziata mi e che First Call se vlivat v I/B/E/S ot tozi mesec i bi sledvalo informaciata na I/B/E/S da e po-palna. Dannite sa ot edin strategy research na Deutsche Banc Akex.Brown i citirania iztochnik e Thomson Financial. I dannite sa Bottom-Up aggregation. Az samia se zanimavam s MSCI index i tam moga da vi dam chisloto i za taia sedmica.Za razlikata m/u operating earnings i actual earnings si napalno prav
Aleksi,
2001 q3 10.77
2002 q4 11.33
Bottom uP Thomson Financial
za polugodieto ne sam chul nikoi da citira danni, a niama mnogo smisal spored men.

[Терминатор]

proforma earnings

Камене, pro-forma earnings включват само continued operations и изключват extraordinary (one-time events) като inventory write-offs, M&A charges и др. подобни. Понастоящем разликата между pro-forma и actual earnings е значителна, което е лесно обяснимо предвид големите write-offs.
Все пак по-правилно е да се използват pro-forma earnings, а ако исакш да видиш какво става в действителност като bottom line, гледай free cash flow. В крайна сметка:
Earnings are an opinion, cash is what matters!

[Камен Кирилов]

proforma earnings

Доколкото разбирам, proforma earnings са доста лъжлив показател доколкото компаниите могат да си решат да не вземат в предвид некои разходи ;-)
Данните в първоначалния пост бяха именно такива. S&P не се ли оплакваха тия дни именно от липсата на стандарт при оперативната печалба (което е същото като proforma earnings)?

[Алекси Андонов]

Оперативната печалба на S&P 500 е средно $20 на ак

Аз мисля, че разликата идва от годишни данни и тези за полугодието...